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	<title>Comments on: Where Fiction Isn&#8217;t Allowed to be Fiction</title>
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		<title>By: Modiggidy</title>
		<link>http://literatehousewife.com/2009/02/where-fiction-isnt-allowed-to-be-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-6051</link>
		<dc:creator>Modiggidy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://literatehousewife.com/?p=2252#comment-6051</guid>
		<description>To Literate Housewife for the post and Meghan &quot;That said, I think it’s also valid to add to this discussion the idea that history is actually a debate. Some facts are concrete. Most are not. We’re always challenging what has come before and re-interpreting documents and facts and believe it or not, finding new evidence.&quot;
Thank you both for saying this.  To an extent, I can agree that it is disrespectful to fly in the face of all known facts, but is that always truly the case?  Often when I read the most angry, vociferous objections to &quot;inaccurate&quot; fiction, I find that many of them turn out not to be directed against actual anachronisms, or variance with real, specific &quot;facts&quot; that can be nailed down to a specific time or place, but rather based upon the general impression given of someone&#039;s personal &quot;villain&quot; or &quot;hero.&quot;

Reading different NON-FICTION works can paint very different pictures of historical figures, from Biblical figures to modern prime ministers and military leaders.  Why should that difference of opinion and interpretation be disallowed for fiction writers?  &lt;i&gt; Which &lt;/i&gt; of the historical accounts an author accepts as the most reliable source may not be the same for another, so it doesn&#039;t necessarily follow that the author is intentionally defaming someone or being deceitful, particularly when several centuries removed from the character in question!  It may be true that they are taking liberties for a juicy story, but on the other hand they may simply disagree as to which interpretation is correct. 

Works of literature dealing with historical figures usually differ from each other and the non-fiction accounts.  (Try Shakespeare for several terrific examples.)  If someone dislikes the writer&#039;s interpretation, fine, object, please....but be honest about why, and don&#039;t quickly accuse others of laziness, lying, etc. without offering specifics.  To me, doing one without the other is also lazy and disrespectful.  (I am NOT referring to anyone here, but to some very emotional comments and screed directed at others in various places.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Literate Housewife for the post and Meghan &#8220;That said, I think it’s also valid to add to this discussion the idea that history is actually a debate. Some facts are concrete. Most are not. We’re always challenging what has come before and re-interpreting documents and facts and believe it or not, finding new evidence.&#8221;<br />
Thank you both for saying this.  To an extent, I can agree that it is disrespectful to fly in the face of all known facts, but is that always truly the case?  Often when I read the most angry, vociferous objections to &#8220;inaccurate&#8221; fiction, I find that many of them turn out not to be directed against actual anachronisms, or variance with real, specific &#8220;facts&#8221; that can be nailed down to a specific time or place, but rather based upon the general impression given of someone&#8217;s personal &#8220;villain&#8221; or &#8220;hero.&#8221;</p>
<p>Reading different NON-FICTION works can paint very different pictures of historical figures, from Biblical figures to modern prime ministers and military leaders.  Why should that difference of opinion and interpretation be disallowed for fiction writers?  <i> Which </i> of the historical accounts an author accepts as the most reliable source may not be the same for another, so it doesn&#8217;t necessarily follow that the author is intentionally defaming someone or being deceitful, particularly when several centuries removed from the character in question!  It may be true that they are taking liberties for a juicy story, but on the other hand they may simply disagree as to which interpretation is correct. </p>
<p>Works of literature dealing with historical figures usually differ from each other and the non-fiction accounts.  (Try Shakespeare for several terrific examples.)  If someone dislikes the writer&#8217;s interpretation, fine, object, please&#8230;.but be honest about why, and don&#8217;t quickly accuse others of laziness, lying, etc. without offering specifics.  To me, doing one without the other is also lazy and disrespectful.  (I am NOT referring to anyone here, but to some very emotional comments and screed directed at others in various places.)</p>
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		<title>By: Mommy Brain &#187; Links for Friday</title>
		<link>http://literatehousewife.com/2009/02/where-fiction-isnt-allowed-to-be-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-5213</link>
		<dc:creator>Mommy Brain &#187; Links for Friday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 06:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://literatehousewife.com/?p=2252#comment-5213</guid>
		<description>[...] Where Fiction Isn&#8217;t Allowed to Be Fiction: A post by Literate Housewife about historical fiction - that is, fiction based on actual [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Where Fiction Isn&#8217;t Allowed to Be Fiction: A post by Literate Housewife about historical fiction &#8211; that is, fiction based on actual [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://literatehousewife.com/2009/02/where-fiction-isnt-allowed-to-be-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-4494</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://literatehousewife.com/?p=2252#comment-4494</guid>
		<description>Great post!  I love HF and don&#039;t really care if it is 100% accurate. I would much prefer that an author interest me in the time period, and if I want to research more, I can.

What bugs me the most about HF is when a character will do or say something totally modern.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Melissa’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://shhhimreading.blogspot.com/2009/02/tagged.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tagged!&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;I expect there to be some liberties taken and I&#039;m alright with that.  I agree about the modern glimpses.  I sometimes find the stronger female characters feeling very out of place.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!  I love HF and don&#8217;t really care if it is 100% accurate. I would much prefer that an author interest me in the time period, and if I want to research more, I can.</p>
<p>What bugs me the most about HF is when a character will do or say something totally modern.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Melissa’s last blog post..<a href="http://shhhimreading.blogspot.com/2009/02/tagged.html" rel="nofollow">Tagged!</a></em></abbr></p>
<p><strong><em>I expect there to be some liberties taken and I&#8217;m alright with that.  I agree about the modern glimpses.  I sometimes find the stronger female characters feeling very out of place.</em></strong></p>
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		<title>By: Carrie K.</title>
		<link>http://literatehousewife.com/2009/02/where-fiction-isnt-allowed-to-be-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-4325</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrie K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://literatehousewife.com/?p=2252#comment-4325</guid>
		<description>Wonderful, thought-provoking post. I react to historical fiction that is about real people the same way you do - I look up more information about them. I recently listened to The Passion of Artemisia by Susan Vreeland on audiobook - and then spent a few hours on Wikipedia and other sources reading about her real life and viewing her gorgeous art. Yes, there were a few differences in the novel that helped to move the story along, but nothing that I think denigrated her memory.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Carrie K.’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://booksandmovies.today.com/2009/02/22/the-sunday-salon-february-22-the-bucket-loads-of-guilt-edition/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Sunday Salon - February 22 (The “bucket-loads of guilt” edition)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;I have that book, but I haven&#039;t read it yet.  If you spent that much time researching it, it must be good.  I&#039;m bumping it up in my list.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful, thought-provoking post. I react to historical fiction that is about real people the same way you do &#8211; I look up more information about them. I recently listened to The Passion of Artemisia by Susan Vreeland on audiobook &#8211; and then spent a few hours on Wikipedia and other sources reading about her real life and viewing her gorgeous art. Yes, there were a few differences in the novel that helped to move the story along, but nothing that I think denigrated her memory.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Carrie K.’s last blog post..<a href="http://booksandmovies.today.com/2009/02/22/the-sunday-salon-february-22-the-bucket-loads-of-guilt-edition/" rel="nofollow">The Sunday Salon &#8211; February 22 (The “bucket-loads of guilt” edition)</a></em></abbr></p>
<p><strong><em>I have that book, but I haven&#8217;t read it yet.  If you spent that much time researching it, it must be good.  I&#8217;m bumping it up in my list.</em></strong><br />
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		<title>By: Lorin</title>
		<link>http://literatehousewife.com/2009/02/where-fiction-isnt-allowed-to-be-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-3863</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://literatehousewife.com/?p=2252#comment-3863</guid>
		<description>Great post! For me,  I will read - and enjoy- HF that is not historically accurate but I much prefer authors who stick to known facts. I just think fudging the historical record smacks of laziness - either write historical fiction or just fiction, but don&#039;t call it historical if its not. Its just set in the past and to me there is a difference.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Lorin’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://archthinking.blogspot.com/2009/02/friday-update.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Friday Update&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;That&#039;s a great point, Lorin.  There is definitely a difference between authors who take creative license with history and those who don&#039;t bother to do a basic Google or Wikipedia search beforehand.  If the author can&#039;t be bothered to do the research, why should I be bothered to read it?&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post! For me,  I will read &#8211; and enjoy- HF that is not historically accurate but I much prefer authors who stick to known facts. I just think fudging the historical record smacks of laziness &#8211; either write historical fiction or just fiction, but don&#8217;t call it historical if its not. Its just set in the past and to me there is a difference.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Lorin’s last blog post..<a href="http://archthinking.blogspot.com/2009/02/friday-update.html" rel="nofollow">Friday Update</a></em></abbr></p>
<p><strong><em>That&#8217;s a great point, Lorin.  There is definitely a difference between authors who take creative license with history and those who don&#8217;t bother to do a basic Google or Wikipedia search beforehand.  If the author can&#8217;t be bothered to do the research, why should I be bothered to read it?</em></strong></p>
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		<title>By: Shana @ Literarily</title>
		<link>http://literatehousewife.com/2009/02/where-fiction-isnt-allowed-to-be-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-3571</link>
		<dc:creator>Shana @ Literarily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://literatehousewife.com/?p=2252#comment-3571</guid>
		<description>Well said, Jennifer.  I agree with you completely, as far as what I&#039;m looking for or expecting when I read historical fiction.  And I love Philippa too!  :)

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Shana @ Literarily’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.literarily.com/2009/02/17/tuesday-thingers.aspx?ref=rss&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tuesday Thingers&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Jennifer.  I agree with you completely, as far as what I&#8217;m looking for or expecting when I read historical fiction.  And I love Philippa too!  <img src='http://literatehousewife.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><abbr><em>Shana @ Literarily’s last blog post..<a href="http://blog.literarily.com/2009/02/17/tuesday-thingers.aspx?ref=rss" rel="nofollow">Tuesday Thingers</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Daphne</title>
		<link>http://literatehousewife.com/2009/02/where-fiction-isnt-allowed-to-be-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-3570</link>
		<dc:creator>Daphne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 01:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://literatehousewife.com/?p=2252#comment-3570</guid>
		<description>Very well said!  While I don&#039;t think I would like a book that totally distorts history, a few alterations or some speculation in areas that aren&#039;t totally agreed on make for an interesting story.  Besides, if all of the books about a particular person followed the exact same storyline, wouldn&#039;t they all sound the same?  And that doesn&#039;t make for fun reading!

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Daphne’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://shelfandstuff.blogspot.com/2009/02/monday-mosaic_16.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Monday Mosaic&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;That is a good point, Daphne.  I hadn&#039;t thought about it like that, but who wants to read the same novel about [fill in the blank] over and over again?&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well said!  While I don&#8217;t think I would like a book that totally distorts history, a few alterations or some speculation in areas that aren&#8217;t totally agreed on make for an interesting story.  Besides, if all of the books about a particular person followed the exact same storyline, wouldn&#8217;t they all sound the same?  And that doesn&#8217;t make for fun reading!</p>
<p><abbr><em>Daphne’s last blog post..<a href="http://shelfandstuff.blogspot.com/2009/02/monday-mosaic_16.html" rel="nofollow">Monday Mosaic</a></em></abbr></p>
<p><strong><em>That is a good point, Daphne.  I hadn&#8217;t thought about it like that, but who wants to read the same novel about [fill in the blank] over and over again?</em></strong></p>
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		<title>By: Lisamm</title>
		<link>http://literatehousewife.com/2009/02/where-fiction-isnt-allowed-to-be-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-3543</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisamm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://literatehousewife.com/?p=2252#comment-3543</guid>
		<description>Great post, Jen, and excellent discussion.  I don&#039;t have much to add at this point.  I read TOBG with very little knowledge of tudor England so for me it was a fun, wild romp.  Ignorance is bliss, I guess.  And I did make assumptions that the historical aspect was true- so was surprised to learn that much of it was false.  But I still loved it.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Lisamm’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://lisamm.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/teaser-tuesdays-3/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Teaser Tuesdays 2-17-09&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Jen, and excellent discussion.  I don&#8217;t have much to add at this point.  I read TOBG with very little knowledge of tudor England so for me it was a fun, wild romp.  Ignorance is bliss, I guess.  And I did make assumptions that the historical aspect was true- so was surprised to learn that much of it was false.  But I still loved it.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Lisamm’s last blog post..<a href="http://lisamm.wordpress.com/2009/02/17/teaser-tuesdays-3/" rel="nofollow">Teaser Tuesdays 2-17-09</a></em></abbr><br />
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<p>A</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hartford</title>
		<link>http://literatehousewife.com/2009/02/where-fiction-isnt-allowed-to-be-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-3520</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hartford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 19:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://literatehousewife.com/?p=2252#comment-3520</guid>
		<description>This is a really fascinating topic!

Fiction and history are different ways of knowing--&quot;non-overlapping magisteria&quot; per Stephen Jay Gould?--and both contribute to how we imagine the past.  I&#039;m bothered when a history/biography tries to express the inner thoughts of a historical figure (De Rosa&#039;s &quot;Rebels: The Irish Rising of 1916&quot; did this a lot, and I had to stop reading), less bothered when a novel plays a little loose with the facts in the interest of exploring the unrecordable facts (so long as no major plot point hinges on an anachronism).

Fiction that explores the gaps in history can be really enlightening, and lead to a richer understanding of the past.  I recommend Emma Donoghue&#039;s &quot;The Woman Who Gave Birth to Rabbits,&quot; a collection of short stories that explores some little-known corners of women&#039;s history in the UK, for an example of how history and fiction can work together.  Nathaniel Hawthorne did similar things with his short stories exploring the &quot;moral history&quot; of New England.

In any case, an author who gets historical fiction right in a way that works as both fiction and history has pulled off something incredibly difficult; the historian&#039;s work of providing evidence and verifying facts is almost simple compared to the work involved in making the past live.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Michael Hartford’s last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FromAFartherRoom/~3/VGiz64jDEA0/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;gallery shadows 2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;Michael, thank you so much for stopping by.  I&#039;m glad you find this discussion as interesting as I do.

I really like what you said about history and fiction contribute to how we imagine the past.  The key word there is imagination.  I also agree with what you say about an inaccurate anachronism (say that 10 times fast) not being such a bad thing as long as it isn&#039;t the hinge holding the story line together.  That does make a difference.  Yes, an author who makes a historical figure/event come alive completely within the confines of what is known and believed in history has created quite a work of art.

I have not heard of Emma Donoghue&#039;s collection.  It&#039;s definitely going on my list of books to get my hands on.  Thanks so much for the recommendation!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really fascinating topic!</p>
<p>Fiction and history are different ways of knowing&#8211;&#8221;non-overlapping magisteria&#8221; per Stephen Jay Gould?&#8211;and both contribute to how we imagine the past.  I&#8217;m bothered when a history/biography tries to express the inner thoughts of a historical figure (De Rosa&#8217;s &#8220;Rebels: The Irish Rising of 1916&#8243; did this a lot, and I had to stop reading), less bothered when a novel plays a little loose with the facts in the interest of exploring the unrecordable facts (so long as no major plot point hinges on an anachronism).</p>
<p>Fiction that explores the gaps in history can be really enlightening, and lead to a richer understanding of the past.  I recommend Emma Donoghue&#8217;s &#8220;The Woman Who Gave Birth to Rabbits,&#8221; a collection of short stories that explores some little-known corners of women&#8217;s history in the UK, for an example of how history and fiction can work together.  Nathaniel Hawthorne did similar things with his short stories exploring the &#8220;moral history&#8221; of New England.</p>
<p>In any case, an author who gets historical fiction right in a way that works as both fiction and history has pulled off something incredibly difficult; the historian&#8217;s work of providing evidence and verifying facts is almost simple compared to the work involved in making the past live.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Michael Hartford’s last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FromAFartherRoom/~3/VGiz64jDEA0/" rel="nofollow">gallery shadows 2</a></em></abbr></p>
<p><strong><em>Michael, thank you so much for stopping by.  I&#8217;m glad you find this discussion as interesting as I do.</p>
<p>I really like what you said about history and fiction contribute to how we imagine the past.  The key word there is imagination.  I also agree with what you say about an inaccurate anachronism (say that 10 times fast) not being such a bad thing as long as it isn&#8217;t the hinge holding the story line together.  That does make a difference.  Yes, an author who makes a historical figure/event come alive completely within the confines of what is known and believed in history has created quite a work of art.</p>
<p>I have not heard of Emma Donoghue&#8217;s collection.  It&#8217;s definitely going on my list of books to get my hands on.  Thanks so much for the recommendation!</em></strong><br />
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://literatehousewife.com/2009/02/where-fiction-isnt-allowed-to-be-fiction/comment-page-1/#comment-3512</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://literatehousewife.com/?p=2252#comment-3512</guid>
		<description>I agree with your take on it.  Since historical fiction has people who actually lived at some point in history as characters, people do seem to be either a) more likely to accept historical fiction as an account of actual events, and (on the opposite end) b) more quick to point out historical gaffes or inaccuracies, or feel defensive of historical figures.  I&#039;m reading The Historian, and read a review in which someone complained because an international phone call made by a character in the book would have not been made during that time period.  Come on people, let it go!  I would be willing to bet that while some people may (mis)take historical fiction as an account of actual events, more people become interested in the actual history because of the novel (or movie, or TV show.)  I had no interest in Henry VIII until I started watching The Tudors, but I have gone online and done a little reading to tease out fact from fiction since I started watching the show.  One of these days I might even pick up a biography of Henry VIII or one of his wives when I wouldn&#039;t have otherwise.  

But the bottom line is fiction is fiction, whether it&#039;s &quot;science&quot;, &quot;historical&quot;, or otherwise.  Some authors may do better research than others, but the finished product is not a factual account of events in any case.  No one can control the thoughts and reactions of a reader, although one would hope that most people know the difference between a biography and a novel.  But I&#039;m sticking with the side of encouraging imagination, creativity, book writing, and book reading.

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;Well said, Jen!  This may not be something that happens as often with science, but there are differing interpretations of history, so what one person might see as a blatant assault on history may be what those on the other side of the fence think.  In the end, I fully agree with what you said in closing: &quot;I&#039;m sticking with the side of encouraging imagination, creativity, book writing, and book reading.&quot;  Whatever the outcome, I say Amen.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your take on it.  Since historical fiction has people who actually lived at some point in history as characters, people do seem to be either a) more likely to accept historical fiction as an account of actual events, and (on the opposite end) b) more quick to point out historical gaffes or inaccuracies, or feel defensive of historical figures.  I&#8217;m reading The Historian, and read a review in which someone complained because an international phone call made by a character in the book would have not been made during that time period.  Come on people, let it go!  I would be willing to bet that while some people may (mis)take historical fiction as an account of actual events, more people become interested in the actual history because of the novel (or movie, or TV show.)  I had no interest in Henry VIII until I started watching The Tudors, but I have gone online and done a little reading to tease out fact from fiction since I started watching the show.  One of these days I might even pick up a biography of Henry VIII or one of his wives when I wouldn&#8217;t have otherwise.  </p>
<p>But the bottom line is fiction is fiction, whether it&#8217;s &#8220;science&#8221;, &#8220;historical&#8221;, or otherwise.  Some authors may do better research than others, but the finished product is not a factual account of events in any case.  No one can control the thoughts and reactions of a reader, although one would hope that most people know the difference between a biography and a novel.  But I&#8217;m sticking with the side of encouraging imagination, creativity, book writing, and book reading.</p>
<p><strong><em>Well said, Jen!  This may not be something that happens as often with science, but there are differing interpretations of history, so what one person might see as a blatant assault on history may be what those on the other side of the fence think.  In the end, I fully agree with what you said in closing: &#8220;I&#8217;m sticking with the side of encouraging imagination, creativity, book writing, and book reading.&#8221;  Whatever the outcome, I say Amen.</em></strong></p>
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